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 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by mof

26-May-08 07:33 PM 

I fully concur with ChrisB's proposal. My best rally spectating memories are of powerful rear wheel drive cars ridiculously sideways approaching the corner, somehow balancing the car on full opposite lock for some distance after the corner. (Plus the sweet music of sidedraught webers...)



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

27-May-08 02:40 PM 

The new Pirelli control tyres are "Monster" tyres. Very heavy and reinforced to avoid punctures.

I would also love a 2wd format, but that is in my opinion to fight the white. It will be 4wd.

Auriol says that the S2000 need to be driven perfectly, and smooth to work. And that you can not do a mistake, since then you will be penalized more due to lack of power.

I like that as well (yes I am a bit strange I guess :-)
I like it because on todays cars it is to easy to get up to speed again if you miss a junction or something. That is supposed to cost. You made a mistake - you pay for it. And it is the same for all !

It require a driver to drive differently and not only trust the power - more tactics maybe.

I f we end up with S2000, then the engines will develop in 5 years, and become better rally engines.



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by RonSkoda

27-May-08 03:31 PM 

Auriol's comments are interesting, but the fastest way to drive a WRCar is also not sideways.

I am convinced I saw more sliding, opposite lock and even some scandinavian flicking in IRC so far this year with the S2000s than WRCars.

I think you could be right about the engines developing Radiv. Perhaps it is as the expense of top end power, but the Fabia S2000 looks to have a bit more kick out of the corners than the other S2000 cars. I guess we will have to wait to see how it does on the stages...



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Gregor

28-May-08 10:18 AM 

I don't think there's a problem with being penalized by a mistake, but I don't want one to put a driver out of contention, either. I found a video online of a Scottish event from 1976 where the winning Escort rolled on the first day and ran the rest of the event with a peaked roof.

On the other hand, some penalty should be applied, as we've seen this year in Argentina, or as I more vividly remember at Monte Carlo in 2006 when Loeb went off the road on the first day, did not finish the leg, and still finished the event in second place.

I would think the rules rather than the cars are ruining the penalty of making mistakes.



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Chris B

28-May-08 03:24 PM 

Gregory talks very much out of my heart. There are 2 points that jump to my mind.

- Cases like Scottish 1976 were possible because back then we had proper rallies, even at national level

- Souprally is unfair and hard to understand

We have a case where rallies became ever shorter and then counter balance one mistake with the next, introduce a scheme that nobody can retire. So now we have rallies where nobody can catch up and severeness of mistake does not matter. Both is wrong. Taking the Loeb in Monte 06 example, if someone has a severe off and / or does not complete the distance, he should not be able to get a result! On the other hand, let me take an extreme example: Safari. Gaps were never counted in split secs but in minutes. But when someone was 20 min behind, that did not mean the rally was over for him, far from it! Loads of opportunities to make up time or have more incidents happen in a sporting way!

Sorry, slightly off subject, but Gregor makes another point here. The cost of the cars is not the #1 problem of the sport. Looking at F1 or soccer, if the media return was good, money didn't matter! And I for one believe the reason why there is no show in the media is we have rules that nobody understands and events that simply are not characterful, nor interesting (mind you, I couldn't tell a Spanish soccer playground from a German or a British one, but point made.)



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

29-May-08 02:20 PM 

Souprally or superally in current format is the most stupid thing ever introduced !

If they are to drive, they need to start first and be sweepers for the rest, but they can not score points.
If you are out - you are out !!

Soccer is driving itself into bankruptcy, it is only a question of time. Salaries have been skyrocketing into stupidity - and soon clubs will be broke !! (can be a good thing...)



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Chris B

29-May-08 06:57 PM 

Different angle to the subject. Part of the reason why I want no more 4x4....

Maybe hope is small in modrn times. Too much technology, electronics, car does it all, too little input by the driver.

It's even in F1 the same. I find F1 so oring. Enjoy this video of tyre smoking in F1:

http://www.yatahonga.com/video-quel,duel,!,44864,1.html



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

30-May-08 01:18 AM 

Love that clip, but in F1 they need to get rid of all the aerodynamic shit, and all the gizmos - back to an analogue/mechanical car in both F1 and WRC !!!



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by RonSkoda

30-May-08 04:26 AM 

But in S2000 the transmission is fully mechanical - no electronics helping out the driver.



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

30-May-08 06:20 AM 

Yes, and ??
:-)



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Chris B

30-May-08 08:06 AM 

But in S2000+, future WRCar, they talk of adding hydraulic gearboxes and active diffs.

Plus S2000 has too much grip. That was one of my disappointments when seeing them live, they brake and corner like racing cars and more settled braking is not to be underestimated as an effect of 4x4, as curious as this may sound.



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Chris B

30-May-08 08:47 AM 

OK, I give in, S2000 can slide into corners

http://rallyelee.ra.funpic.de/krumlov/slides/08krb44.jpg



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Ron@work

30-May-08 08:47 AM 

Then we agree - the S2000+ should not have hydraulic boxes or active diffs.

They are turning into WRCar- rather than S2000+ now.



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

31-May-08 12:40 AM 

So is they can not agree on 24 June on the revised S2000+ regs, and go for S2000 and GrN (or just S2000) for now, that would not be such a bad thing.

Then revise the S2000+ regs once more, and introduce the new bolt on kit for aprox 2012 ?

This will then be a stepped approach instead of a big bang !



 Re: WRC S2000Turbo future by Radiv

15-Jul-08 04:36 PM 

So FIA could not make a decicion on the last meeting regarding the tech regs.

Anyone that knows why ?

When is the next attempt and what are the parties doing in the meantime ?


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