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 Technical Regulations from 2013 by Radiv

1-Mar-09 10:56 AM 

Lets say that the S2000 that probably will come 2010 is only a gap-filler, until they will go back to a Turbo format again, already 2013.

If we here at the forum would be asked to give advice to FIA, what would be your perfect engine formula - that also support what is happening in the car industry - much smaller volume, and turbo.

1.6 turbo has been mentioned, Diesel has mentioned. Can we go further down in volume, maybe 1,2 or 1,3 ltr, would be an engine that will fit what the manufacturers will produce as their GTI type cars, also taking the environmentalists account

FIAT Abarth are making their 1,4 esseesse Grande Punto and 500 models, they are taking out 180 hp at 5750, and 270 NM at 3000. Also a Racing 500 with a 1,4 with 190 hp.

What will be the best engine-formula long term if you could decide



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Chris B

1-Mar-09 11:21 AM 

Isn't it interesting that an Abarth 500 road car has more torque than the Punto S2000 rally car?!!!

Good post. Obviously the FIA will change mind on this until 2013 some 256 times and u-turn confirmed new rules some 18 times.

Generally downsizing with forced induction creaated from waste energy is the future, yet at the same time WRCars should remain something to dream about. So there are reasons for making it small as well as keeping it big. I do not see an end of 2000cc engines with the new trend, in contrary, 2000cc turbos are quite likely the dream cars of tomorrow - before comparing them to old Imprezas and Lancers, probably with more electronics and therefore without heavy 4x4. The current Ford dream cars are Focus ST and RS, both using a 2500cc turbo. Mégane, Golf GTI, Astra OPC go 2000cc turbo, with VW making quite rightly a big fuzz of their 1400cc supercharger plus turbo engine. Abarth seems to do everything 1400cc and pushing them to 190BHP. Peugeot's main engine range also for the future is 1600cc turbos, bi-turbos, different boost settings. At PSA-Peugeot-Citroen there should come a 230+BHP 2000cc turbo, but also a 1000cc turbo below the 1600cc turbo, making a 1400cc engine obcolete, in strong contrast to Abarth, who hardly need a 1600cc.

With these examples I try to say it is difficult to decide on one cc size only. Since turbo engines easily allow for power, cost and level competition features as control air restrictors and max boost blow off valves, maybe one could come up with diesel turbo and petrol turbo classes up to 2000cc and level the cc and fuel type classes out with air restrictors, boost settings and minimum weight.

It's difficult though, because not only do I like different ideas competing each other, but I still see top class rallying as a marketing and development bed for the road cars. Hence if Peugeot wants to rally a bi-turbo and VW wants to rally supercharger plus turbo, the rules should allow this.

On other technologies. Maybe it is because it makes my heart bleed, but I am not a believer in alternative technologies. Seeing that last year over several months I could test a 308 SW HDI and I could drive this 7-seater estate in mainly town traffic and living up a hill at less than 6 litres of diesel per 100km - which I don't understand this measure but would equal about 50 miles to the gallon, the results I see of them celebrated modern hybrid cars with their heavy batteries cannot beat this conventional car, even as a huge 7-seater estate! If this does not sound convincing enough, I would ban electric and hybrid cars from rally stages on safety grounds and invent a rule that rally cars have to split flames and bang at at least 140 decibel!



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Chris B

1-Mar-09 11:39 AM 

By the way, Citroen Sport has already started developing their future alternative technology WRCar with the next generation WRC driver:

http://www.geschenke-agentur.de/gbilder/62%20095%204.jpg



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Radiv

1-Mar-09 01:21 PM 

The 2CV is for their Dakar program ! :-)



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Radiv

2-Mar-09 03:44 AM 

One of the factors in my book that is important, is that the WRC car should not be easy to drive. If you do something wrong, it should cost you. that is one of the major differences btw the WRC and IRC cars of today - the S2000 is less forgiving - because of less power and drivability.

I would like that this is kept in the new formula ! A WRC car should be hard to master !



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by RonSkoda

2-Mar-09 05:54 AM 

Maybe a 1.4 or a 1.6 turbo would achieve that Radiv.. with some between the torque of an S2000 and a current WRC.

I agree with your point, and I also think that too much torque and too low down is part of what makes the current WRCars look too boring. They maybe slide a corner but then just pull themeselves straight out of it with seemingly the same power available at any revs. Far too floaty to me without any violence in the power deliver.



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by levingt

2-Mar-09 07:22 AM 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c


This is pretty interesting...probably what our daily drives will be running and we'll keep the combustion engine for weekends.



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Radiv

2-Mar-09 01:05 PM 

If we were to go in the other direction on NA, S2500 would maybe give more torque, but nut sure how much and where ?

Or maybe WRC should go the N-GT route to get back the class and exclusivity that a sportscar look gives. Like we had with Alpine, Porsche, Lancia 037, Stratos, Ferrari and so on ?



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by RonSkoda

2-Mar-09 03:25 PM 

Just to prove a point, Skoda released details of their new Yeti SUV today, with only turbocharged engines!



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Chris B

2-Mar-09 08:18 PM 

Did I get something wrong. For me alternative technology means something like that :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEKyu5xN6ik


To the general talk, I agree that cars should be much harder to drive and let the drivers have their work cut out. But I really do not see how much torque should make it easier. Isn't it clear the more torque you have the earlier, the more likely we are going to see slides and drifts. I am perfectly sure what you mean is to be blamed on 4x4 and electronics, active diffs, trick suspensions, and all that we are going to keep with a 4x4 kit car like S2000!

I have posted this link before and it is a little extreme with a powerful RWD in snow, but isn't it mind blowingly wonderful how Marc Duez has to work and household the throttle so hard. He doesn't actually get to rev it very high. Give him a fire spitting and banging early torque turbo and the show will be even better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV5Lid614Zc&feature=related



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by levingt

3-Mar-09 01:19 AM 

lol and the porsche is sweet but its way too pretty to go rallying proper!

This would be an awesome weekend drive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGZ7kYV2RoU



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Chris B

3-Mar-09 05:08 AM 

Piah, what engine does that have? It sounds even more hurting to the eras than an S2000!



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by levingt

3-Mar-09 08:28 AM 

BMW v12 NA, gots the right amount of power



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Gregor

3-Mar-09 11:12 AM 

"I have posted this link before and it is a little extreme with a powerful RWD in snow, but isn't it mind blowingly wonderful how Marc Duez has to work and household the throttle so hard. He doesn't actually get to rev it very high. Give him a fire spitting and banging early torque turbo and the show will be even better!"

I'm still trying to persuade this local competitor to get to a snow event: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvaaurnG0qE&feature=related"
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWm2Rtwl7tA&feature=related"



 Re: Technical Regulations from 2013 by Radiv

3-Mar-09 02:37 PM 

Does not UK have a class for private builders with RWD, like pug 306 with different engines. What kind of regulations does this class have, and what is it called ?


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