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 Dream Calender by bringbackrealrallying

22-Mar-09 08:30 AM 

What would be your dream WRC calender. I dont mean the sort you hang on the wall and circle your days off, I mean what events would you have in the WRC every year and what format would they have if it was up to you to decide? Here's my go:

1st of all, the current format of cloverleaf events or whatever would be scrapped, all events would be returned to their former selves to a certain extent.

1. Monte Carlo. Easy really, no self respecting world rally championship can start without the Monte. I'd include all the classic stuff, Ardeche, Savoy etc with overnight halts in places like Valence or Aix le Bains. Col de Turini has to be at night.

2. I'd like to say Sweden with all its history etc but it doesnt seem to be as cold or snow as much there anymore. Norway seems to be a better bet nowadays or maybe even the Arctic Rally. I dont think anyone would begrudge Finland 2 events. Wherever it was, it would be a 2 day sprint.

3. Portugal. Deserves an event for the sheer number of people who turn up to watch. 1st day on tarmac round Sintra, the rest on gravel.

4. Safari. Big proper one. 4-5000km job with a couple of toilet breaks. If its politically not possible to have such an event there (Kenya) then hold a similar event somewhere else. Whether thats in South Africa, West Africa, North Africa or South America it has to be long.

5. Circuit of Ireland. No WRC history until very recently but the old event was an epic 5 day treck round the whole of Ireland at Easter. Ireland deserves to have an event and the event deserves to be in. I'd bring the old format back, with whatever safety breaks are required to make it safe by modern standards.

6. Argentina. Based around Cordoba with an element of endurance. I dont know much about the event other than that.

7. Corsica. Has to be in. Has to include a large proportion of very long stages and night stages. Around 7-800km over 36 hrs should surfice. Should really be won by a short Frenchman in a sportscar every year as well.

8. Greece. Instead of having an entire championship of twisty, rough, gravel rallys in the mediterranean how about just the one, but a good one. Don't know much of the history of this one but mine would have to be long, very rough, be winnable by slower stronger cars and include that stage that goes past the Monastry on top of a cliff.

9. 1000 Lakes. Same as ever. 2/3 day sprint around Jyvaskyla. Every year should include young locals in comicly under powered cars running in the top 10 before crashing.

10. New Zealand. Should be fairly long and preferably include South Island for the visuals. Other than that not bothered.

11. Catalunya. Not sure about this one. If losing one meant the rest could be longer this would be the one to go. The original format in the hills around Lloret de Mar would be good.

12. San Remo. Has to be in for the history, for the tarmac and for the beauty of the location. 1st day in the hills above San Remo. 2nd Day, gravel roads in Tuscany. 3rd day Tarmac around San Remo again. I dont care if the motorway drive to Tuscany was a pain in the arse or that setting cars up for tarmac, then gravel and then tarmac again is awkward - is there anything better than watching a rally car rattle along the crest of a hill, between a row of trees on a sunny day in Tuscany? no.

13. RAC. Even if the RAC has nothing to do with it, it should still be called the RAC. Rally GB sounds crap. Bases should move around like they used to. Has to include a 1st day on stately homes and race tracks in Central England. Then the 3 remaining days, in any order should be. North Wales - Hafren, Dyfi, Coed y Brenin, Betws y Coed etc. Northern England - Grizedale, Whinlatter, Wythop, Kershope, Kielder. Scotish Borders and North Yorkshire, including Dalby. The only constant would be that the leg through Kielder has to be at night and that at least 2 years out of 5 it has to snow at least a little bit. South Wales cant be included as punishment for hogging it for the last god knows how long.


Can anyone do any better?



 Re: Dream Calender by AndyRAC

22-Mar-09 10:31 AM 

You've definately been dreaming!!

Let me think, then 'll post what I think it should be like.



 Re: Dream Calender by bringbackrealrallying

22-Mar-09 11:04 AM 

i forgot to add that, for practical cost cutting purposes, the longer events such as Safari, Ireland, Argentina, New Zealand and the RAC would be un recce'd and therefore un pacenoted.



 Re: Dream Calender by AndyRAC

22-Mar-09 03:02 PM 

Maybe you should have 2 calendars; one that's a dream calendar, and one that is more likely.
I can't see the teams accepting a 'no-recce' rule for some Rallies.
I'd have a 12/14 round series, Jan -Dec, with a 6 week break in the summer, right.

1; Monte Carlo - the full hit, a traditional Monte, over 4-5 days, finishing with a night over Turini, then a lap of the GP circuit.

2; Sweden/Norway - a true snow Rally!

3; Portugal - I'd prefer a return to the Fafe/Arganil stages, maybe even a leg on Tarmac.

4; Safari - if possible, and back to it's Easter slot.

5; Corsica - a short intense Rally over 36 hours, with some Night stages.

6; - Argentina - always a fantastic event.

7; - Acropolis - an absolute classic!!

Six week summer break.

8; - New Zealand - some of the best roads in the WRC - The return of the Motu Road stage.

9; Finland 1,000 Lakes - another classic!!

10; Deutschland/Japan - both meant to be important markets, so I'd alternate them.

11; Australia - now moved to the East coast, though I'd prefer a return to Perth, but not possible.

12; San Remo/Catalunya - again, alternate, both these would be mixed surface events, but not on 1 type of tyre.

13; RallyGB/RAC - A proper 4-5 day Rally, but is this possible nowadays? With Kielder booked up in November by the Roger Albert Clark Rally. It would be nice to return to a Sunday - Wed/Thurs event. Move the host town around instead of Cardiff - this has made the event a Welsh event, instead of being a British event.



 Re: Dream Calender by m4d-mike

22-Mar-09 06:26 PM 

leave in the classics rac, acropolis, safari, 1000 shakes and nz but we really should have a few more tarmac events.



 Re: Dream Calender by Chris B

23-Mar-09 07:33 AM 

My dream calendar

1 – Monte
2 – Brazil
3 – Safari
4 – Acores
5 – Ypres
6 – Russia near Finnish border
7 – Madeira
8 – Barum
9 – San Remo
10 – NZ
11 – RAC

All that with good TV, stages like Turini Night live, no soup rally, proper scoring modus like droop scores.

To whoever finds this sounds familiar, next question, do we still need the WRC

Apart that, bringbackrealrallying, I love your calendar for exactly the reasons you name. Comments


“1. Monte Carlo. Easy really, no self respecting world rally championship can start without the Monte. Id include all the classic stuff, Ardeche, Savoy etc with overnight halts in places like Valence or Aix le Bains. Col de Turini has to be at night.”

Exactly. Add a night stop in Gap to count the gaps and add an 8min time penalty to Vatanen’s Peugeot, just to annoy the opposition a little more.

“2. Id like to say Sweden with all its history etc but it doesnt seem to be as cold or snow as much there anymore. Norway seems to be a better bet nowadays or maybe even the Arctic Rally. I dont think anyone would begrudge Finland 2 events. Wherever it was, it would be a 2 day sprint.”

Snow is missing in my calendar but is essential. To your claim or worry, I am not an ignorant to nature protecting issues, but I am one nut case who suspects a green fanatics pun in the green house effect talk. Rally Sweden 89 has been moved to a 1st January weekend slot with the recceing taking place over Christmas and New Year. Reason not enough snow in its traditional February slot. Teams obviously complained, in 1990 Rally Sweden has returned to its traditional February slot and was cancelled for its total lack of snow! Not much has changed then in the last 20 years, in contrary, the success of the 2009 event was not because it was Norway, but because Norway, Sweden, Monte, Germany, everywheere we had a winter in 1989 and 1990 we could only have dreamed about!

“4. Safari. Big proper one. 4-5000km job with a couple of toilet breaks. If its politically not possible to have such an event there Kenya then hold a similar event some else. Whether thats in South Africa, West Africa, North Africa or South America it has to be long.”

An absolute must! A rally series without Africa is not a rally series, not to mention a World or Intercontinental one! If Kenya keeps having the organisational and local stability problems , as the 2009 IRC Safari indicates, I would move the event to West Africa, return of the classic Bandama. In contrary to East Africa the region seems to gain stability, it would be cheaper for logistics for European teams too. Other options in Africa I do not see. South Africa a logistical nightmare for still typical Africa but a climate more like Europe for being equally as far away the equator. North Africa I remember the Moroccan Rallye, which was an absolute WRC classic of the 1970s, but in surface this is more like rock fields without vegetation, and event apart froom the Africa mythos not too dissimilar to Acropolis and co.

“6. Argentina. Based around Cordoba with an element of endurance. I dont know much about the event other than that.”

The beauty of the old style Argentina was its diversity. Cordoba extremely fast, wide, flowing, many watersplashes, but then a couple of legs in the Anden Mountains, tiny twisty, Merc 450SLC 7-points turn hairpins and air so thin that WRC drivers had to wear oxygen masks, while the 2009 Dakar found these stages too challenging for their straight on through dunes driving nutters and cancelled these only sections looking a little like rally stages. Today I don’t have much time for the Rally Argentina. Clearly an event that suffered worse frrom the clover leaf rules.

“8. Greece. Instead of having an entire championship of twisty, rough, gravel rallys in the mediterranean how about just the one, but a good one. Dont know much of the history of this one but mine would have to be long, very rough, be winnable by slower stronger cars and include that stage that goes past the Monastry on top of a cliff.”

Absolutely agreed! I would not even complain half as much about the lottery sprint rallies over rocks the size of footballs if not half the calendar was made up of them, but it was a once a year marathon affair. The Meteora stages you are talking about today are asphalted. This is following a certain Cesare Fiorio making a very kind, unselfish donation to the totally underfinanced local county back in 1983. That this may have helped the RWD Lancia Rally 037 over the Quattros to get a better starting order for a dust free rally of course is total coincidence!

What a story! And !!!!

Other than that.

Asphalt rounds, definitely need more. Definitely include Corsica, this island is bizarre in looks, it is totally memorable. And not even having started on the twisty, technical nature of the stages. I would have 2nd thoughts on Catalunya. The stages are wide and fast and don’t really seem to stand out. If people find asphalt boring and repetitive, maybe Catalunya is to blame. Circuit of Ireland, Ypres, there are a lot of rallies that are better advertising for asphalt rallying. When I spectated the 1999 Tour de Corse, those roads the spectators had to use to get to places were mega and surely made better rallying that the ed stages of Catalunya!

On Finland, “I dont think anyone would begrudge Finland 2 events. Wherever it was, it would be a 2 day sprint.” Not sure if this brain storm is a good idea, just throwing it in now. If Irc or WRC, the rallies need to be longer. IRC already makes a good job in diversity. The WRC has come out with many brainless or plain stupid ideas. But how stupid would this idea be. If we have a 2-day sprint vs a full Monte or Safari, doesn’t it seem unfair to give the same points. Aren’t sprint rallies a lot less work for the same points. How about do 2 sprint rallies in Finland and count them as one. Do a 2-day Arctic Rally, no points, then in summer we return to Jyväskylä and start with the time gaps or results Arctic and the overall times of both rallies are for the points.



 Re: Dream Calender by Chris B

23-Mar-09 07:47 AM 

Forgot, NZ, as you say. If anyone finds a link to the route and program of the 1977 Rally NZ, please post it here. My Rally NZ would look like that. It would start in Rotorua with the Moto stage and finish in Christchurch. Yes, that is South Island!

Sure this would not make for a cheap rally. But logistics are expensive for a start, to pay these logistics for a mini event would be even more a waste. Expensive round in an area of little car market. But never mind, I promise this rally would deliver pictures that can sell cars around the globe!

Please note that in my dream calendar, replacing Japan for NZ is the only change to the current IRC calendar I did. Well, and I drooped Asturias for either just 11 rounds or leave it to discussion what to add. If adding anything, it would be a snow rally or indeed why not a proper Circuit of Ireland. But for far East, I think there are a number of issues that speak against Rally Japan, Asia mainland as China or Indonesia seem completely unable to reach certain organisational standards. NZ has these standards and is unrivalled beautiful! Maybe not only in Germany in dumb down public TV we have a series of people wanting to move countries, and ever again they show NZ - a real dream location it seems, for general public, not only rally fans.



 Re: Dream Calender by bringbackrealrallying

23-Mar-09 11:49 AM 

Sprints need to be in there because they always have been. By sprint I dont mean 4 stages on 2 days I mean say 12-15 stages each day, starting early and finishing late so that some are at night. To win a scandinavian sprint you need either big bollocks or no imagination, to win an endurance rally you need mechanical sympathy, brains and a strong car. There is a place for both, both require as much skill to win, just different skills and maybe different cars.
My remark regarding the lack of snow in Sweden was in no way to make any sort of global warming point, its just that the amount of snow at the Swedish rally seems to be getting less and less. Proper snow rally's with snow covered roads, big snow banks and blue skies are awesome, slithering around on a centimetre of slush in the pissing rain less so! Maybe there would be an opportunity to include a North American event in this slot, but i'd rather have the Arctic, has a nice ring to it that gets the imagination going.
I think two rallies on Portuguese Islands may be a slight bit excessive, although ditching Catalunya and having the Portuguese round on Madeira wouldnt be a bad idea, we do need more tarmac events and Madeira is awesome. I'd probably prefer to have the Portuguese round all on Tarmac on the mainland to ensure the massive crowds!



 Re: Dream Calender by Chris B

23-Mar-09 11:58 AM 

Well, not blaming you for global warming remarks, just thinking that Sweden has been actually better in recent years than people sadly make out, certainly better than 1989 and 1990. Had the Rally been in Sweden this year, there would have been as much snow as in Norway.

"but i'd rather have the Arctic, has a nice ring to it that gets the imagination going."

Now here we are talking! Which brain told us to get rid of such names and identify rallies by the locations they are in?! A Rally of Nairobi could never be the same as THE Safari - sadly last WRC editions have been nothing more but Rally of Nairobi. Same with Arctic or 1000 Lakes, there is a theme to it, raising imaginations, sounds so much more apealing than Rally Finland! That is one thing we need to get single rallies back to their former marketaable glory!



 Re: Dream Calender by oweh

23-Mar-09 01:43 PM 

So heres my go. I would like to see about half the rallys on tarmac. The sport is about real cars on real roads, so at least in parts of the world almost all roads are sealed surface, rallys should be on such roads. Gravel rallies in Italy or France dont make too much sense to me although I could imagine a cobblestone car-breaking rally in northern France or Belgium.

Secondly I like the idea of mixing classic rallies returning every year with new events which the drivers would have to learn in the calendar.

The yearly events could be
-Monte
-San Remo
-RAC
-1000 Lakes
-NZ
-Corsica
-Safari
-Rally OZ as it was dreaming
-Maybe Acropolis, but it will be difficult to re the feeling of the old days and the EU has financed a lot of road-paving there.

I would take 5-6 of the above. To this I would add 5-6 rallies that remain in the calendar for a limited period of time, say 3 years. It could be set up as 6 slots two of which would have new events each year. At least one of these should be on snow, preferably run without studded tires. It would be much slower, but who says rallies are to be fast. Events I would like to see in the calendar temporarily include
-Ypres
-Sno*Drift
-Arctic
-Ireland
-Portugal
-Madeira
-Japan
-Targa Tasmania
-Targa New Foundland
-NorwaySweden

Of course some of these events should be, as said by others above, much longer than todays events. Thats why I would limit the calendar to 10-12 events.



 Re: Dream Calender by blatant

3-Apr-09 07:14 AM 

bringbackrealrallying, you've hit the nail on the head, although make the forteenth round in Perth, Western Australia. The championship needs those ball-bearings!