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 rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike

30-Apr-09 04:29 PM 

looks like the countries holding the rallies are gettin sick of the fia's sh*$%

I reckon the next rally should have 1 hq, 3 mobile servicing sites and stages totalling more than 300 miles and if the wrc dont like it offer it to the irc,
then wait for the spectators to flood in.



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt

8-May-09 10:47 PM 

Just wondering if you think its easier to lose the event and then have to get it back again or to try and keep it and improve it?





 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike

9-May-09 03:47 PM 

how much do you think the irc would love the oppertunity to have one of the cornerstone events on its books.

the uk is and i hate to admit this the birthplace of the wrc. ford subaru mitsubishi toyota are all based there almost every team in the wtcc is in that country too.

wrc loses that, there in trouble,
it really is time for it to move over.
they have yet to introduce one beneficial rule in the last 2 years and have u turned on most others,
stages cancelled because of ice, next thing they will want finland swept by roadsweepers so as to keep it fair and even



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt

10-May-09 02:54 AM 

What are the key differences between WRC and IRC?

I'm wondering if the small minority who think they can save all the worlds ills by going after motor sport are influencing Government representatives.

Do you think they'll want to continue to support Rallying if they start believing them...IRC or WRC?



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike

10-May-09 06:38 AM 

we are the small minority who believe in motorsport.
the re is so many terrible accidents all over the world and unfortunately quite a large deal of people believe that its the machinery that causes the accident not the ths driver.
this type of mentality tents to filter to the top and in terms of authority to make the decisions you can occasionally get people who just think rallying actually causes drivers to drive irrationally and get killed.
however i dont believe that this is the case here the funding was pulled because the money would have been better spent on the ryder cup.
it will bring more spectatos more money and a better profile than the current wrc, which unfortunately is only a shadow of what it used to be.

This is on top of the events being under a rotation system which means they only get one rally every two years,

the fia needs to get more cars and teams to enter each rally this will promote better competition and that is what will draw the crowd
for example what the irc is doin right now,
i can see the irc promotors jumping at the chance to have a rac style rally the way it should be done.
no more of the sprint style cloverleaf events wit stages being cncelled because they dont have the forsight to bring a different tyre type to deal with the conditions that they are guaranteed to have



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt

10-May-09 09:54 AM 

I agree with you totally, I believe motorsport has a lot to offer...

As far as the ryder cup is concerned what project evaluation methodology are they using?

I do think there is room for both IRC and WRC.

The rotation system is a stuff up... I also would like the events to go back to the original 'unique' formats as much as possible.

Australia was good when it was 'unique' format with 30 different stages and 500+ks it gradually got smaller and smaller!

Have I got it right? A major difference is cost and commitment, If IRC competitors don't turn up for a rally the rally still runs because it is a local event with international status.

WRC events are specially organised events and therefore manufacturers must commit to at least 2 cars for 8 rounds. If they don't show they are excluded and fined?



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike

13-May-09 05:42 PM 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1vp4hoZ9HQ&feature=quicklist

1;29 seconds and you will see why im not exactly upset about losing the rac rally.
wrc ireland was not a shadow of the old circuit of ireland used to be



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt

14-May-09 02:25 AM 

Totally with you, WRC should be epic...just not with you on the sitting back and hoping that someone else will come in and will be ABLE to put on a better event.

I could be wrong but there are people who have some misconceptions about motor sport and see it as an 'easy target' to fulfill their self need to seen to be doing something about the environment. We need to focus on these people.

I emailed WAG got a reply which is a copy of a public statement.

http://tinyurl.com/pzo9gk

The economic figures quoted have no context and the report referred to I have not able to find online. It is really weak to not show how the figures are arrived at.

Anyway I have emailed them back to request copy of the following:

“World Rally Championship Appraisal 2006” economic analysis of the economic effects of the WRC Rally in Wales for Department of Enterprise Innovations and Networks, Welsh Assembly Government.

Anybody have a copy of this report?



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by Chris B

14-May-09 05:22 AM 

Take m4d-mikes link and look around 3m35 Russell Brookes onboard and count the spectators in Sutton Park! A single Sunday park stage seemed to generate as many spectators as the event has today in total!

Make the rally something the public understands as a real adventure, go more the country. Look at the named spot in the link at 1m29. Sury it is difficult to go back to those extremes all over the country with 65 stages. But seeing that map I glare at my screen in disbelieve. Then I lean back, remember what we have today and think "Hang on a minute, this is supposed to be the best in World, who are they trying to kidd!

On environmental talk, I could serve so many examples that most of this is by fanatics who are totally blindfolded, who however sadly have reached the public ear and believe.

On the linked text of levingt, one should read this. This is the proof of what I suspected. In fact two proofs. One the reasons the WAG cancelled sponsorship is indeed the lack of WRC status for the event in 2010, this was by their words a cornerstone to the contract and that cornerstone is not given any more, so their withdrawal is legitimate! Sadly as a rally fan, I totally agree with them, the FIA has fucked this one up with their rotation and the IMS is only burning cash trying to sue them! The other is, this report I understand that money brought the area by visitors to this event is a jokingly tiny amount to what it was in proper RAC days, which brings us back to the starting point of this post, WRC events should not look like kindergarden layouts.



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by starboardtac

14-May-09 06:59 AM 

"I'm wondering if the small minority who think they can save all the worlds ills by going after motor sport are influencing Government representatives."

Blame the environmentalists - that's pretty weak for a conspiracy theory.

The WAG statement states, more than once, that they are willing to negotiate a new agreement for a lower sum.

To me it sounds like one more government entity that is simply tired of the FIA's crap - same as what happened in Australia a couple of years ago.

Chris B - the report mentions nothing about the economic impacts generated by the good old RAC days, but I agree with you that the diminished spectacle of the event appears to be having an impact on the appeal of the sport. They are simply looking at the bottom line return on investment ratio. IMS sold them tickets to a 5 year cruise on a sinking ship, and the FIA handed them a lifeboat.

If you were expecting an 8:1 ROI on an agreement and after a couple of years you were only receiving 2:1, then you would be thinking the same thing. If the WAG could negotiate a new agreement for a smaller amount, then their ROI ratio would go up, because it does not appear that the event is poised to grow (the other way of improving the ROI) in the coming years, given that there won't be one in 2010.



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by Chris B

14-May-09 07:30 AM 

"Chris B - the report mentions nothing about the economic impacts generated by the good old RAC days, but I agree with you that the diminished spectacle of the event appears to be having an impact on the appeal of the sport."

Latter part of the sentense absolutely my point. On the impact of old RAC days, I may not have read it right, but didn't they say or mean they had or were promised 3.3 Million return in 2006 and they only get 1 Million now.

"To me it sounds like one more government entity that is simply tired of the FIA's crap - same as what happened in Australia a couple of years ago."

Couldn't have worded it better, and the WAG statement says exactly what I suspected. They don't put blame on the FIA directly. After all, why should they care what created this situation. But repeatedly and clearly they do pin their withdrawal decision on the invention of rotation, robbing them of a WRC event that was promised to them by long term contract! Hence IMS would not stand a chance in court, the WAG decision is based on IMS not fulfilling their side of the contract, never mind if IMS or FIA fault. Well, said all that already, but interesting to have the confirmation that this stupid, short sighted rotation decision is to blame for the damage!



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt

14-May-09 07:36 AM 

If they are not able to negotiate then a breach of contract needs to be decided accordingly. Something for them to work out.

The figures presented. I would like to see the report. Without it, the figures are meaningless.

I'm down for some decent rally events...340-400 ks is a Sunday drive.



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by AndyRAC

14-May-09 09:36 AM 

What I find disappointing in all this - none of the sporting side has been discussed. All we hear is how much money is spent during the event. Forgive me, but in a way I hope it doesn't take place - they might then wake up and get people to organise it who care about the sporting side rather than the financial!!



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by bringbackrealrallying

14-May-09 03:28 PM 

Andy - thats sport nowadays. Whether its the increasing number of 20-20 cricket games, the domination of football by a hand full of clubs or the ever shortening and dumming down of rallys. Money is what matters over whether the spectacle or event is the most it could be. Its sad.



 Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike

14-May-09 04:57 PM 

and this is the point of the whole arguement, the irc promoters would be delighted to ge themselves an rac event. this would only bring home the whole real issue to the manufacturers and the organisers of the wrc. the irc would be a properly run event and would have more viewers and spectatrs than last years rally simple as that. more competitors = more action and the only way that is gonna happen is to cut costs and allow wild card entries. hey ae half way there with the cost cutting and by the time they get all the u turns outta the way it will be time for the 1.6 turbo idea any way

speeding up the process of them gettin thier s%$t together.


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