General Forum (Archived)
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by m4d-mike
14-May-09 08:13 PM
oops my bad only just spotted that the irc are doin a rally scotland but that however doesnt rule out a national rally in the wrc gaps.
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by teamanager
14-May-09 09:21 PM
re Rally Wales.
In years gone by, The RAC Rally (the precursor of the current event) was rated as pulling the largest number of spectators compared to any other sporting event in Britain.
Rally Wales was never going to achieve anything close to that. Reducing the event to just a small part of South Wales effectively prevented any but the most die-hard fans from getting to see the event.
Gone are the fans who made it out to see one or two stages in their local area. And that means many of these fans won't see any world-level rallying at all.
I think that has been the biggest tragedy of the design of current World Championship events. It is still followed by the fans to whom this is THE major sport in the world. But that's all....we've lost all the people who were interested, but not to the extent of paying large amounts of money to travel to one small corner of the country and brave the elements (the weather is usually horrible in England in November) to watch the rally stars drive by. We took the rally away from them.
Maybe the Welsh government has finally realised that they bought a pig in a poke....
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt
15-May-09 00:21 AM
First of all and I don't think this is conspiracy. It is a fact that green votes do matter in most countries. There is a minority ‘blinkered’ left wing that seeks to leverage this fact and unless WE aren’t re-affirming Government representatives that motorsport is not only good for the economy but also brings with it significant social value then who will?
2nd It is ironic that the measures introduced to cut costs and to make WRC more profitable are actually diminishing it. So how big an effect do they want? I think it has been discussed ad nauseam around here that it would not be hugely more expensive to run bigger events and would get rallying and sponsors in the face of a lot more people!
And 3rd Because money matters. There are many ways to work out a ROI. All I will say is that, amongst other things, with what I would think would be a fairly capital intensive event such as a WRC event (capital intensive usually means jobs and community involvement) upping the depreciation charge to reduce profit can make an investment look worse. Not that I’m saying this is that case here, but it is why you should see how the figures are arrived at.
Rally Aus Perth was canceled because the then Minister produced a figure with no explanation, saying that the event was not financially viable.
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by Chris B
15-May-09 04:59 AM
"Rally Aus Perth was canceled because the then Minister produced a figure with no explanation, saying that the event was not financially viable."
You are right, it is important for an educated discussion to know AUS and Welsh governments have these figures . I found the Welsh figures believable and maybe exaggerated with the loss of profit since the old RAC because of first hand experience of my local Rallye Deutschland. I helped at the event organisation in its early days. For a number of reasons, one being the current format, I lost interest in helping them, but I still have contact to them. Important difference in this discussion is that in Germany there is no government involvement. We are jealous reading the Welsh and Australian problems. We have no government support, we have to pay the government to be allowed to run it! Our tax money is meanwhile pumped intto soccer, but thats a different story. Point is, ever since Rallye Deutschland received WRC status, the event organisers ran at a huge loss. When the event started out in the mid 1980s, it had no WRC status, it was twice as big, yet the organisers ran at a win! It was advertised to be targeted at WRC status, but surely also the fact that this was -except Hunsrück- by far the biggest rally on German ground made big teams, sponsors and people come. More over, the organisers have huge expense for FIA WRC guidelines and ISC fees, yet they actually have less mention in the national media than they had without WRC status, which in return leads to lack of sponsors! In fact, above named expenses and efforts are so big that we lost a rally. The Rallye Deutschland organisers merged with the Hunsrück Rallye organisers and event to be able to run at WRC status, yet their event is a quarter of what both formerly profi rallies used to be, yet they run at a loss! Strange that....
I may add I dont understand why they did not try to run as an IRC round this year. That would have been the ideal solution, they could have had the vice versa effect that WRC meant to them, a bigger event at less cost. As it is Rallye Deutschland will not go ahead at all this year for they have no money to run it and I fear rotation may spell the end of this event for good.
Very, very, very words by teamanager
"In years gone by, The RAC Rally the precursor of the current event was rated as pulling the largest number of spectators compared to any other sporting event in Britain.
Rally Wales was never going to achieve anything close to that. Reducing the event to just a small part of South Wales effectively prevented any but the most die-hard fans getting to see the event.
I think that has been the biggest tragedy of the design of current World Championship events. It is still followed by the fans to whom this is THE major sport in the world. But thats all....weve lost all the people who were interested, but not to the extent of paying large amounts of money to travel to one small corner of the country..... We took the rally away them.
Maybe the Welsh government has finally realised that they bought a pig in a poke...."
So perfectly hit the nail on the hat! I agree it is all about money in the modern days. But curious I say this, why not. The event should not run at a loss and the manufacturers should see a marketing profit. At the same time, this is the one aspect wheere I agree with Max Mosley in his no manufacturers WRC speach.
Because the tradegy I see is that the events have made smaller, tried to make them cheaper which they arent, tried to make them more TV friendly with clover leaf etc, which Dakar proved what TV is interested in.... Now the manufacturers are understandably moaning at everything that makes their involvement more expensive. But it seems to me they are not thinking long term. Maybe indeed we should make this cut, ignore the manufacturers wishes, dish up a huge RAC Rally with Sunday Park stages bringing the rally ly to the public, and I bet after a couple of years, when they realise public and such the media are interested in this event, we have suddenly sponsors for single park stages as we used to have and we have a return of works teams, and more than two of them! Why do you think Volkswagen is prepared to pay 80 Million Euros for Dakar alone. Because that seems forgotten in all that tradegy. Besides a larger event not necessarily being that much more expensive, many seem to talk about expense, when we should be talking about value for money.
If the RAC was pulling the largest number of spectators of all sporting events in UK, and today in South Wales we obviously dont have this, well this is a key aspect! We have demolished this and it will be a lot harder to rebuilt the RAC to its former glory. But imagine the RAC was still or once again UKs largest public sporting event, the manufacturers would be queueing to take part, the expense would be secondary!
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by levingt
16-May-09 03:06 AM
brief comments, financing a question of marketing. My thoughts are Governments really should only involve themselves sports and arts events there is market failure and or a significant benefit to community and social dividend. In the case of WRC non- exhaustively boosting tourism, private spending, community involvement and jobs satisfies the significant benefit.
The fact that they are mentioning ROI is testament to the fact that they are just marketing to justify public expenditure because in reality such high returns probably indicate that the Government is crowding out private investment. I.E. events with high ROI should not get that much public funding.
And again privately run events as you have in Germany without being privy to the books running at loss does not mean an event is bad financially, could just be an effective marketing and tax minimisation strategy. So the issue with money is just leveraging some sports do it well others not so well.
Im not going to enter whether IRC is better than WRC because to me its all rallying but WRC needs to pull its finger out.
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by AndyRAC
10-Jun-09 04:05 AM
Well, we find out today if RallyGB goes ahead. I'm slightly confused though - WAG are saying that as far as they're concerned it is a bi-annual event - Even though it has been confirmed on the calendar for neext year.
The other worrying thing - if it doesn't go ahead, it could affect the other FiA Sanctioned events run by MSA - i;e IRC Rally Scotland, British GP.
Re: rally wales funding pulled. yay!!! by Chris B
10-Jun-09 09:04 AM
I don't think IRC RAC Scottland will be affected as IRC organises there series remote from FIA, even if they use FIA guidelines for some aspects as car categories. Though surely this is not the best news for British events.
With WAG saying it's a bi-annual event, the calendar on which Wales Rally GB now appears for 2010 is an ISC draw up and not a confirmed calendar. Knowing the FIA and their u-turns, such draw up means basically nothing at all, and even the WAG seems to have realised this.
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