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 dear fia i have a sugestion by m4d-mike

18-Jun-09 06:57 PM 

we want so see things like this at rallies.
more power less grip. it is actually cheaper this way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms&feature=related

skip to 1;13 for those of you who dont care who ken block is



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by Chris B

25-Jun-09 06:27 AM 

Brilliant video!

"we want so see things like this at rallies.
more power less grip. it is actually cheaper this way."

This is exactly why I keep arguing about S2000. If you are going to create an innovative new category in an attempt to give us more spectacle at reduced cost, they come out with less power, aka no turbos, and full 4x4 grip. Who shit intto their brains. More power, less grip is what we needed!



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by onthelimit

25-Jun-09 07:01 AM 

The FIA members are either dumbs or they simply don't care about rally. I hope the new president in October will revise the new rules. A 1600cc turbocharged engine specs are almost the same as a 2000cc normally aspirated engine so it's not the best solution.



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by Chris B

25-Jun-09 10:40 PM 

Sorry, on this one I don't agree at all. It is difficult to compare a turbo to an atmo. Maybe even if on the road a 1600cc turbo would have about the same power of a 2000cc atmo, the turbo will have twice the torque, plus it is much easier, aka cheaper to tune. Seeing that ALL car manufacturers replace their atmos for downsized turbos is another reason why the FIA has here made the right decission. I cannot find a single reason why the 2000cc atmo should be the better engine.



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by AndyRAC

26-Jun-09 04:01 AM 

Personally, I'd let the Manufacturers choose which they want to use, which in most cases would be a 1.6T.



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by m4d-mike

26-Jun-09 05:08 AM 

i dont thing the costs have anything to do with the engine really its all the trick suspension and gearbox goodies that they use to reign in the power thats what makes th cars no fun to watch.
if they are just ping a 1.6 turbo a s2000 car it should be actually pretty good to watch



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by Chris B

26-Jun-09 05:50 AM 

I am with m4d-mike here. What is making the price is trick suspension and gearbox and differentials and not the engine at all - which is why in S2000 I would have preferred 4x4 to be dropped rather than turbos, seeing expensive shell changes to accommodate transmission tunnels and seeing that 2WD only needs 1 diff rather than 3, no centre diff. As it is S2000 is also heading beyond 300,000 Euros, using suspension freedom.

For onthelimit, he is right as depending what FIA does with air restrictors and things, I do see a chance to get 1600cc turbo on the same level as 2000cc atmo in rallying as well, this would allow the current S2000 cars to compete there too, which would be interesting, but having free choice I see new cars going the 1600cc turbo route entirely.

On cost and development maybe the easiest way to explain, you have a 1600cc turbo road car and a 2000cc atmo road car, both 150BHP, you want to tune them to say 220BHP. The 1600cc turbo you raise the boost and buy an ECU chip for 100 Euros. What will have to be done and how much will it cost to tune the atmo to this state?



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by m4d-mike

26-Jun-09 09:35 AM 

atmo to 240 bhp needs a cam porting polishing raised compression and strengthened everything throttle bodies and the lot, it costs me 7k euro to get an engine done like this but the more ya spend the more ya get
1600 turbos will hit 300bhp easy but the torque figures wont be any where near what they are now



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by onthelimit

27-Jun-09 12:43 AM 

When you have a turbo it's easy to reach high levels of power and torque by raising the boost. But we have to remember that these engines are going to last 3 races ( I suppose because of the cost cutting policy) and cover long distances and so manufacturers won't raise that much the combustion because that will make the engines unreliable. That's why I think S1600 engines will have almost the same specs as a S2000's.



 Re: dear fia i have a sugestion by Chris B

28-Jun-09 02:37 AM 

Actually turbos should be more reliable than high revving, big compression atmos as well. Of course if you don't go silly like the 1400BHP from 1500cc we had in F1 once. With S2000 cars we certainly hear of more blown engines than with WRCars and remember one of the most successful marathon cars, beating the 4x4 regularly in 5000kms Safari and Bandama rallies in the groupB days was a turbo (Toyota Celica TCT)