Rally Islas Canarias 2011

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Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 15 Mar 2011 09:02

The entry list for Rally Canarias is looking surprisingly good;

Skoda:
Hanninen
Kopecky
Mikkelsen
Loix
Hevia

Peugeot:
Wilks
Neuville
Magalhaes
Bouffier

Ford:
Pons
Scandola

Proton:
Andersson
TBC (probably Basso)

Current conditions on the stages (no, I didn't accidentally link to Monte photos!)

Image

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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby Gregor » 15 Mar 2011 16:47

Looks nice; sadly the IRC video page has been changed and it's now nearly impossible to view anything, even the excellent Monte coverage. Most of the video links from the English language site now connects to a list of video links in French, and some of those links work but are French, while others inform me (in French) the video is not available in my region. Still others do nothing at all.

Someone over at IRC videos needs to be smacked.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 16 Mar 2011 16:16

Couple of updates to the entry; I forgot about Gardemeister in the Hankook Skoda, and it now looks like Scandola will miss Canarias but run 4 different IRC events instead.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ChrisB » 20 Mar 2011 15:33

Scandola I find interesting. And I can't believe Ford is not doing more with IRC. To me they have the best S2000 car alongside the Fabia. OK, Peugeot had a good Monte, but generally I expect the IRC to turn out similar to last year, and that means Ford could provide a better fight to Skoda than Peugeot will do. And wasn't there talk of Anton Alen in a Fiesta? I know Ron doesn't overly like him, but when Alen and Scandola shared a car as Abarth juniors in IRC, they both showed flashes of brilliance. I always wanted to see what Alen could do in a different car, as when he had his many crashes was when it seemed even Basso had to overdrive the car to keep up with the Peugeots. It would be a fascinating coincidence to have both Alen & Scandola turn up in Fiestas!

It would be nice if Scandola turned up in Ypres. It seems the Belgians like him. They even called a stage after him: Lago Scandola!
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 21 Mar 2011 19:06

Don't get me wrong, Anton did have some potential and he is certainly not an Al-Qassimi or any other of the bunch of WRC pay drivers but I don't think he had a great attitude. and for Abarth it would have been better to have a permanent Basso-Rossetti lineup.

I am looking forward to seeing what Basso can do in the Proton - he is used to putting in great performances in an underperforming car.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ChrisB » 21 Mar 2011 23:36

Interesting answer.

To Alen. Don't know why, I somehow liked the kid. I mean with attitude and being Anton Grumpinen is all correct. And maybe the best interviews were those by his dad. I guess the main reason why I like him is that despite the right dad he wasn't just handed Millions to start 75 WRC events in a WRCar with no results, but really went about his career in a sensible and interesting way.

The strange bit that I asked myself often is: Yeah Alen had that win in Russia which maybe tipped the decission towards him when Abarth decided to get Basso in and could only keep one of their youngsters. So I asked myself often what would have been had they kept Scandola. Alen was never fast on asphalt, Scandola we have never really seen what he can do on gravel, but he led San remo twice and crashes had Alen too. IRC has a hang slightly more to asphalt, and Scandola also wasn't going to crash forever and surely had more speed also than most of the WRC pay drivers and likely more speed than early Abarth driver Navarra too.

With Basso in the Proton is also interesting. Yes he is used to great performances in an underperforming car. But with Basso my impression was that he only is really, really good on fast, flowing asphalt. Or you think that was the car too? That maybe will be something to find out. The Proton should be great in handling, its short coming is the engine (with a Lotus based 1.6T coming). And remember, as short as it lasted, PG Andersson was 12th fastest in Monte SS1 and PG is no asphalt specialist and it was his first ever stage in an S2000 car. With Basso-PG they would have an exciting line up, but seeing rallies like Corsica, Yalta, Ypres, is that really the best line up compared to i.e. Rossetti/Vouilloz/Bengué? Mind you, Canarias next should be a Basso rally and PG I trust to have the right mix between speed and brain on the multi points gravel rounds RAC & Cyprus.

I think all of this are interesting points....
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby mof » 22 Mar 2011 10:02

ChrisB wrote:.... he wasn't just handed Millions to start 75 WRC events in a WRCar with no results, ....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Guessing comp? :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby Gregor » 22 Mar 2011 16:32

I know the Proton looks good and has had some record in Asia-Pacific, but the record in the IRC is terrible. Silly mechanical issues seem too common, and there have been a few crashes that seem to completely take the car out of rallies, like PG at Monte Carlo this year. It looks as if there are either some very fundamental problems a good manager needs to sort out with better testing or Proton is the least lucky maker in the world of rally. That said it will be interesting to see what Basso can do, providing the car doesn't break down.

Ford doesn't seem to have much interest in S2000; is it run by MSport who may be focusing more on the WRC for any serious 'manufacturer' (sic) effort?
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ChrisB » 22 Mar 2011 19:25

Guessing comp? I think it's 77 WRC starts next weekend :-)

Gregor, this is an interesting analysis of two manufacturers who could add excitement.

The Fiesta I think the M-Sport link hits it. It's an M-Sport project with Ford blessing, M-Sport needs to make a profit and are probably less interested in the marketing side of thinks as a directly operating manufacturer like Citroen or Skoda would be I guess. Therefore, even if they have a potential IRC winning car, if they had Marcus Grönholm ask for IRC for free and Oliveira or Rautenbach or so ask for IRC if they paid M-Sport, M-Sport would not chose Grönholm! It's a bit short sighted I think, as good results would advertise for their car, but it seems money matters more than results.

Proton I rate as the most unlucky. It is a small team and a poor manufacturer, but the enthusiasm and the base car seems to be very good. If I look through their IRC retirements I get: 2009: Ypres Wilks crash, Barum Wilks ECU, Bouffier ECU both on route to 1st stage, 2010 Ypres Atkinson, McRae & Cave all the same engine problem on the same stage SS4, Barum Cronin crash, McShae engine, San Remo McShae engine SS1, RAC McRae alternator, Cronin steering, Cave crash, 2011 Monte Atkinson ECU before SS1, PG crash SS2. Add McShae's sensational WRC Ireland start I have day1 ECU, day2 crash. In WRC 1 start 2 retirements = a 200% retirement rate is too weird for me, though in IRC we have so far 20 starts, 14 retirements, and except RAC McRae alternator and Cronin steering, all of these retirements were crashes (4) or engine related (8).

That to me is incredible bad luck. What's worse, the car also seems not to be the fastest. Potential is there. But how do you develop your car, play with set ups, when you have 75% retirements, nearly all of them within the first 4 stages before you have even returned to service for the 1st time?! The good news is, there seems not to be a lot of different problems, but one big one, the engine. Ironically that is a Renault Clio engine, which normally is good. However, Proton is near certain developing an all new 1.6T engine, and if engine is their only problem, changes for a bright future are very good!
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby AndyRAC » 22 Mar 2011 23:01

Ford/M-Sport would rather run the Fiesta S2000 on WRC events in the S-WRC, were they already compete, rather than the 'other' series, aka the IRC.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 15 Apr 2011 14:34

Incredibly close times on Canarias so far! Should be a great rally.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 16 Apr 2011 14:26

Well, that was an incredible rally. Really close times right to the end, shame it wasn't on live tv. Hope for more of the same on Corsica!

Special mentions to Hanninen for his first tarmac win, Neuville for a great performance and Proton (especially Basso who beat his team mate on all stages)

Proton confirmed their step forward here - both cars without problems and closer to the leaders too.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ewanr » 16 Apr 2011 18:41

Yeah great rally ! Hanninen is real class - if he can get a couple more events on top of Barum, Scotland and Cyprus Im sure he'd retain the title.

Slighty disappointed by Wilks pace at times but again he just picks up decent points for the championship. As for Basso u hav to remember he's the tarmac expert in the Proton team and not PG . However its good to see the reliability is finally getting there.
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby Gregor » 18 Apr 2011 14:48

It is nice to see both Protons finish; I hope Basso has some good experience to give that will make the car better for its next tarmac outing. Hanninen is just too good. There was talk during Monte Carlo about Skoda making an effort to get Kopecky the IRC title this year and I figured that's why Hanninen didn't have a full works run. But he (Hanninen) will need to miss a lot of events!
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby RonSkoda » 18 Apr 2011 17:36

Gregor wrote:Hanninen is just too good. There was talk during Monte Carlo about Skoda making an effort to get Kopecky the IRC title this year and I figured that's why Hanninen didn't have a full works run. But he (Hanninen) will need to miss a lot of events!


I think that's rubbish. That's not how Skoda work. Otherwise they wouldn't have run Juho on Canarias, and secondly they could have made him drop behind Kopecky (but they didn't)
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby Gregor » 20 Apr 2011 18:52

All the talk I heard watching the Monte coverage about Kopecky's backing this year didn't mention why Hainnen wasn't on for the full calendar. Being the champion last year I couldn't understand why he was running a smaller (now expanded) schedule. If that's not their intention that's great; it only makes me more unhappy I don't even have the option of buying a Skoda.

There is one other interesting point; have we seen an example of team orders being issued among the leaders at an IRC event?
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ChrisB » 22 Apr 2011 16:58

ewanr wrote:Slighty disappointed by Wilks pace at times but again he just picks up decent points for the championship.

Still reason to be disappointed, though. I really like Wilks, so I don't want to sound negative on him. But I do wonder if he is as quick as Meeke. Collecting reliable points is for the wimps over at WRC. The IRC game works different. We don't have 2-car teams and have drop scores instead. Which means no reason to hold back and make sure of points for your manufacturer, but also the guy who is reliable and comes 2nd all the time still loses out to the guy who wins and crashes half the time, because the guy who reliably comes 2nd all the time still has to take drop scores. So sadly 5th is not what we want to see of Guy, 5th is no better than a retirement when it comes to the championship.

Agreed on Neuville, man of the rally for me!
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Re: Rally Islas Canarias 2011

Postby ChrisB » 22 Apr 2011 17:11

Gregor wrote:There is one other interesting point; have we seen an example of team orders being issued among the leaders at an IRC event?

Interesting point indeed. In IRC, as said, we don't have 2-car teams and we have drop scores instead. This seems to bring - alongside the closer competition and everybody in equal cars - less reason for team orders.

I myself must admit I am a slight or hidden fan of team orders. But only where they make sense. I see no sense in team orders early in the season, when you don't know what happens during the year. I am however in full conformity of - let's call it - team work when it comes to championships at the end of the season. I.e. starting order games in WRC and Loeb having a better car than Petter is not what sport is about for me. But why should not one driver drive for his team mate, when only the team mate can improve his championship position/chances?

To the point, in IRC team orders seem extremely rare indeed, and when they come they are of the good nature I described above. The last two occasions of team orders I can remember in IRC are:

- Monte 2011 = Sarrazin dropping to 4th, this promoted team mate Wilks to 3rd, with Wilks doing the entire championship and Sarrazin having a one-off start.
- Valais 2008 = Vouilloz slows down before the finish line of the last stage to let Peugeot team mate Freddy Loix win the rally. In that year Valais has been the last round, Vouilloz & Peugeot already had the titles secure, and Loix's win meant Loix came 2nd in the championship. Maybe it is less important, but this maneuvre meant we had a Peugeot 1-2 in the drivers championship. Had Loix stayed 2nd in the rally, Abarth driver Basso would have been 2nd in the championship, so for a team an understandable team order I suppose.

Maybe I forgot something here, but off my mind I do not remember any team orders in IRC 2009 & 2010.
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