R-GT Class

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R-GT Class

Postby Sulland » 05 May 2010 11:39

As I Have stated before I think having a GT car class would be a splendid idea.
Leave the top class to the professionals, and let the "money-monkeys" drive in a GT car. Will also fit their image perfectly ! :mrgreen:
Last edited by Sulland on 30 Jan 2011 14:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby ChrisB » 05 May 2010 11:57

OK, here for N-GT discussion, my post rom the 1600T thread again:

AndyRAC wrote:I personally find it all depressing. We're going to end up with what we have now. When what we need are 5,6,7 Manufacturers to shake everything up.

The 1600T for me are absolutely a step intot he right direction. Unfortunately that is not the only thing that is wrong with the WRC. If you want 5, 6, 7 manufacturers, IRC has the answer!

AndyRAC wrote:After watching highlights of Canarias on YouTube - I'd allow a class for GT3 cars.....how good are they, and the sound!!

I am absolutely with you on that one. The category exists in Belgium, France, Germany and Spain, the cars exist, alongside the famous Porsche there is a BMW Z3 M, a Bozian(!) engineered BMW 135i, a Lotus Exige and a couple of times in France a Prodrive(!) engineered and run Aston Martin Vantage, in Spain former Citroen satellite team Piedrafita also runs a Ferrari 360 Modena and in Germany we once saw a not yet homologated Lamborghini Gallardo course opening car.

Now a Lamborghini is not the car that should be in rallying to my mind, but Porsche even has a rally history. The cars exist and nicely mix with the S2000s. In Asturias last year Vallejo (now in the Fiesta) would have been 2nd overall in the Porsche had his time counted to IRC. In Canarias now Fuster (former Abarth Spain driver) in the Porsche may only have been 7th, but after problems, most of the time he was around 3rd-4th place. This means even in performance these cars mix well with the S2000s, they would absolutely add to the competition. They would also add to the show. Sure on gravel they stand no chance, but on asphalt they are podium candidates and then there is the sound, which alone means marketing potential, then there is the cost, in German championship rallying it is said Dobberkau's 911 GT3 costs about half of a state of the art gN Lancer or Impreza!

Some years ago the WRC Rallye Deutschland was part of the German championship and the FIA first allowed the N-GT cars to start after the field, then they U-turned this decision last minute (the FIA making U-turn on firm confirmed decisions? Never!) Meaning the German championship was a farce because 4 regular Porsches were not allowed to start one championship round. As a result now the German championship is no more part of the WRC event and Germans won't start Rallye Deutschland to the WRC's loss! Then the FIA mused if these cars could be allowed to ERC. Then the Monte organisers announced N-GT can start Monte 2010, IRC was fine with it, guess who U-turned it all again? I wish Monte and IRC wouldn't listen to certain people and just allow the N-GTs!
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby AndyRAC » 05 May 2010 12:02

Sportscars used to be in the WRC, so what changed?

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovi ... t3_rs.html

Even he thinks they should be in the WRC.
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby M4dmike » 16 May 2010 12:46

the n-gt class is the best idea i have heard since they used group a sierras,

I dont understand the problem they have with them. apart from the entertainment value, the fact that they are much cheaper,
The only real problem i can see is that they have the potential to upset a couple of the manufacturers on a few tarmac rounds well m2 teams,
if the overall perspective is taken into account it seems that the rules are changed around without really affecting the issues. 1600t wrc is supposed to be a cost saver. but we have a situation where only ford and citroes seem to know whats goin on, and anyone else is far too scared to look at the sport, now the development costs for this cheaper formula are a bit ridiculous now seemingly the only change is -400cc, not really a big loss to them.

I personally think the ngt class should be used as a template for all classes.

take a standard road sports car andd compulsory safety equipment. simplify. as in fi you dont have it in your road car fleet you dont get it in your rally car. believe me 4x4 would pop up fairly fast in a special eddition citroen, and ford has the kuga 4x4. no relocating suspension, engine, h pattern gear box, because it is sturdy and wont cost the earth to develop a millisecond of a quicker gearchage.

everyone knows that this is an intelligent starting point, not perfect.
but workable.
however now we havent started the new class and it is startin to look exactly like what we have now.
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby AndyRAC » 16 May 2010 13:55

M4dmike wrote:the n-gt class is the best idea i have heard since they used group a sierras,

I dont understand the problem they have with them. apart from the entertainment value, the fact that they are much cheaper,
The only real problem i can see is that they have the potential to upset a couple of the manufacturers on a few tarmac rounds well m2 teams,
if the overall perspective is taken into account it seems that the rules are changed around without really affecting the issues. 1600t wrc is supposed to be a cost saver. but we have a situation where only ford and citroes seem to know whats goin on, and anyone else is far too scared to look at the sport, now the development costs for this cheaper formula are a bit ridiculous now seemingly the only change is -400cc, not really a big loss to them.

I personally think the ngt class should be used as a template for all classes.

take a standard road sports car andd compulsory safety equipment. simplify. as in fi you dont have it in your road car fleet you dont get it in your rally car. believe me 4x4 would pop up fairly fast in a special eddition citroen, and ford has the kuga 4x4. no relocating suspension, engine, h pattern gear box, because it is sturdy and wont cost the earth to develop a millisecond of a quicker gearchage.

everyone knows that this is an intelligent starting point, not perfect.
but workable.
however now we havent started the new class and it is startin to look exactly like what we have now.


I agree with you. The rules/regs have changed but the issues haven't really been addressed! I thought the whole point of 1.6T was for cheaper, less technological cars, which would attract more Manufacturers who have been too scared to join because of costs, and the lack of promotion.
So, what has happened? It seems as though both Ford/Citroen have wanted to keep the status quo and damn the sport! We need 5,6,7 Manufacturers!! Why can't these clowns see this.
The Porsche 911 GT3 RS i designed for Motorsport, get in in there - all it needs are a few tweaks!!
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby ChrisB » 16 May 2010 22:55

I couldn't agree more with the last two posts! That is exactly hitting the nail on the head!

Andy, the irony is that the car is already there, it does not need development, it is homologated, it is rallying, it is there! All that is missing is the FIA to allow N-GT into international rallies.

In WRC it would only be 3 events in which it could become dangerous for the WRCars. And in IRC the 2 asphalt events in which we had a comparison, even if the Porsche did start in a separate classification, it didn't win, so it wouldn't win against WRCars either. Maybe the scare is that the Porsche does not even need to win to get all the marketing attention. But then that is only proof that something is wrong with the sport as a whole!

I don't want to start the whole keep turbos and drop 4x4 discussion again. But I believe the whole attempt with WRCars and S2000 based kit cars is wrong, it is expensive and the cars re too efficient, or how shall I say. I know the Porsche is not even a turbo, but it is the sound what people want to see! It is the sound why the Porsche could come 5th behind two ords and two Citroens and still everybody would talk about the Porsche only! What we need is not to rule out the Porsche, but to make other makes produce the same! Porsche sounds great, the fact that it struggles for traction only improves the sound sensation, and when I keep talking of turbos, see i.e. ord has learned the lesson when it comes to road cars (Focus RS): If I want rally to be a show, if I was Ford I would allow in step 1 the N-GT Porsche to participate and in step 2 I would steal the Porsche the show in turning up with a barking 5-cylinder that goes sideways, pops and bangs and spits flames! Next problem would be spectator safety, believe me! Nobody would talk about start order any more and there would be masses turning up again seeing my car replying to Porsche barks with flame spitting and dump valve hissing! :-)
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby M4dmike » 17 May 2010 20:58

i wonder would the new rs500 focus with the revoknuckle suspensuion go well in the ngt class. ford seem to think its not at a disadvantage being fwd
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby ChrisB » 17 May 2010 22:44

Maybe it is built in too small numbers, but the "normal" Focus RS would do? I think as long as it does not have to compete 4x4 on gravel it would make a great N-GT car!
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Re: GT Car Class in WRC

Postby rv65 » 29 Jan 2011 23:04

R-GT is now official.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby Sulland » 18 Feb 2011 08:47

What do you know of homologation plans for cars in the new R-GT class ?

How much difference is there btw a N-GT car and a R-GT car, in other words - will it be difficult for the factories to get cars homologated for the new class ?
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby ChrisB » 18 Feb 2011 11:00

Sulland wrote:What do you know of homologation plans for cars in the new R-GT class ?

How much difference is there btw a N-GT car and a R-GT car, in other words - will it be difficult for the factories to get cars homologated for the new class ?

On first sight the differences don't seem too big. The max power figure in RGT is actually higher than that in NGT, but NGT does not have a speed limiter. There must be other things, or maybe it is simply because it is a new/different group. I am hearing that Porsche, who are so much involved with N-GT rallying in Germany, France & Belgian, would have to go through a complete new homologation process again and they are reluctant to do so, stating beyond the changes, why re-homologate a car that is already homologated and successful. Maybe it is also a question of what profit Porsche would have from R-GT homologation. Porsche are not interested in WRC it seems, IRC in turn clearly ruled out GT cars for this year, and basically everywhere else they can run with the old homologation.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby rv65 » 18 Feb 2011 18:57

I saw the R-GT regulation and didn't see mentions of a speed limiter.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby rv65 » 07 Aug 2011 19:20

I've heard that Lotus is working on an Exige rally car. I think they could very well be the first manufacturer to make a R-GT car.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby rv65 » 13 Sep 2011 23:29

http://is.gd/7teCQS
http://www.lotuscars.com/en/frankfurt-rally-exige

It's official, Lotus has debuted the Exige R-GT, which will be Lotus' array into the new R-GT class. It makes around 300 HP from a 3.5L supercharged v6, due to air restrictors. It also weighs in at around 1200 kg. It looks interesting. Now if only more manufacturers could join in on the party.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby ChrisB » 16 Sep 2011 00:03

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Re: R-GT Class

Postby rv65 » 16 Sep 2011 23:44

I've heard the R-GT's will compete in a tarmac only championship.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby Sulland » 18 Sep 2011 21:42

The engine comes from Toyota, so reliability should be good!
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby rv65 » 20 Sep 2011 18:31



Video presentation of the Exige R-GT.
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby Sulland » 22 Sep 2011 21:49

165 000 $ is not bad for the Lotus. Gentleman drivers, go for it !
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Re: R-GT Class

Postby ChrisB » 27 Sep 2011 10:37

Sulland wrote:The engine comes from Toyota, so reliability should be good!

So the engine is heavily changed from its base. The rally car engine is still in development too. The car shown in Frankfurt has 302BHP on the dyno, by the start of next year they hope to be at around 350BHP.
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